Sunday, November 25, 2007
response to Christines post
Please check out Christines post: I started making a comment and then realized it would be good to at least make a post on it,
I am not sure which point I am answering at which point though. I will say though the government(fyi Gov=US gov from now on in this post unless otherwise specified) at times has made a good separation. However the last two terms president has completely allowed himself to put both into the same and then based on that created religious wars. I am not a religious person at in the sense that my belief in god is deism. However I have a respect for people of any faith as long as they believe in it. My issue are more toward the organized part of religion. I want to at least answer Christine's blog.
1. I don't know much about Pentecostalism however I know its a form of fundamentalism. Pretty much I generalize these type of Christians in the same group. Essentially these are the people that believe the bible should be interpreted to the word. I am sure they are all different in their own way but they at times are so bible focussed that they forget Jesus main messsage which was to love your brothers. "Brothers" meaning your fellow persons. The issue I have is that this groups of christians are the leaders in the anti gay movements which I find ironic in the sense they they are so adamant about preaching gods love but they then can not accept all of gods creations. Unfortunatly they don't find it as ironic as I do and they just view it as a sin. In my view its just another great reason to realize how organized religions have butchered the idea of why the religion has started.
2.Church and state separation. I belief in this idea. I do believe that the moral constructs that religion provides should be includes the people representing the government offices. My issues are when they bring their religious beliefs into their law making. Bush original name the war in Afganistan after the 9-11 attack Operation Infinite Justice.
I had never even heard of it before but I had a teach who mentioned and then I found some sites that confirmed this. This was the name for the first two weeks of the war in Afganistan. The idea of even clarifying a war as infinite justice puts a huge religious aspect on it. Obviously they changed it before it became complete holy war based on the name. Not sure if I have a point except I do believe it a separation.
3. I guess my only response to three is that more people have been murder in the name of god or religion then any other reason ever. Based on that alone give me pause. The crusades caused christians and muslims to kill each other. though it was started by the christians so I guess any issues now might be pay back for the crusades. Either way I think they are both f'd up on their process of how it fits their beliefs. Other great killings based on god related issues:
Holocaust(6 million jews)
Crusades(muslims, jews, christians) I believe that is also in order of most killed though that is based on assumption not facts so feel free to post fact on deaths.
Going back I back I guess you could say during the roman empire there was a good amount of killings of Christians though I am also sure they were also killing jews at the time(Islam was not around then otherwise I sure they would have also been persecuted in some way.)
Prior to the point the only majoy Western religion that was around is judaism which was if your have ever read the old testment or seen the movie the "Ten Commandments" would understand that they were enslaved by the Egyptian empire for years. I know this is purely from a western religion point of view but unfortunately I have a very limited knowledge of eastern religions. I guess my main point is the fact that religions have been persecuting other religions for years. Because it puts people into the point that if someone is not comfortable with something different then they need to supress that difference. You still see it all the time in modern day with stereotypes. I am sure we have all been guilty of this in the past. Lets just try not to make the same mistakes in the future.
I am not sure which point I am answering at which point though. I will say though the government(fyi Gov=US gov from now on in this post unless otherwise specified) at times has made a good separation. However the last two terms president has completely allowed himself to put both into the same and then based on that created religious wars. I am not a religious person at in the sense that my belief in god is deism. However I have a respect for people of any faith as long as they believe in it. My issue are more toward the organized part of religion. I want to at least answer Christine's blog.
1. I don't know much about Pentecostalism however I know its a form of fundamentalism. Pretty much I generalize these type of Christians in the same group. Essentially these are the people that believe the bible should be interpreted to the word. I am sure they are all different in their own way but they at times are so bible focussed that they forget Jesus main messsage which was to love your brothers. "Brothers" meaning your fellow persons. The issue I have is that this groups of christians are the leaders in the anti gay movements which I find ironic in the sense they they are so adamant about preaching gods love but they then can not accept all of gods creations. Unfortunatly they don't find it as ironic as I do and they just view it as a sin. In my view its just another great reason to realize how organized religions have butchered the idea of why the religion has started.
2.Church and state separation. I belief in this idea. I do believe that the moral constructs that religion provides should be includes the people representing the government offices. My issues are when they bring their religious beliefs into their law making. Bush original name the war in Afganistan after the 9-11 attack Operation Infinite Justice.
I had never even heard of it before but I had a teach who mentioned and then I found some sites that confirmed this. This was the name for the first two weeks of the war in Afganistan. The idea of even clarifying a war as infinite justice puts a huge religious aspect on it. Obviously they changed it before it became complete holy war based on the name. Not sure if I have a point except I do believe it a separation.
3. I guess my only response to three is that more people have been murder in the name of god or religion then any other reason ever. Based on that alone give me pause. The crusades caused christians and muslims to kill each other. though it was started by the christians so I guess any issues now might be pay back for the crusades. Either way I think they are both f'd up on their process of how it fits their beliefs. Other great killings based on god related issues:
Holocaust(6 million jews)
Crusades(muslims, jews, christians) I believe that is also in order of most killed though that is based on assumption not facts so feel free to post fact on deaths.
Going back I back I guess you could say during the roman empire there was a good amount of killings of Christians though I am also sure they were also killing jews at the time(Islam was not around then otherwise I sure they would have also been persecuted in some way.)
Prior to the point the only majoy Western religion that was around is judaism which was if your have ever read the old testment or seen the movie the "Ten Commandments" would understand that they were enslaved by the Egyptian empire for years. I know this is purely from a western religion point of view but unfortunately I have a very limited knowledge of eastern religions. I guess my main point is the fact that religions have been persecuting other religions for years. Because it puts people into the point that if someone is not comfortable with something different then they need to supress that difference. You still see it all the time in modern day with stereotypes. I am sure we have all been guilty of this in the past. Lets just try not to make the same mistakes in the future.
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Hi Dave,
thanks for commenting!
I'm also not a fan of organized religion, but I strongly believe that everyone should have a choice and should be allowed to freely and peacefully follow whatever religion they believe in.
I also think the seperation of church and state is a good idea, however, this is not easily enforced, and I'm not sure it's being successfully done anywhere (at least not anywhere I've ever lived). And I wonder if it's ever possible to completely seperate the two. Aside from the way our current administration behaves, religion also factors into who people will vote for in the next election, making it an important point for candidates to stress.
In addition, religious issues are turning into political issues, and vice versa, for example in regards to gay rights or abortion. Not to mention religous wars and killings that are initiated by government in the name of religon.
What I do think works in the US is that religion isn't being pushed on anybody. In that sense, church and state are seperated. The High School I went to in Germany was public and had no religious affliliation. Yet, we had mandatory religion classes for each of the 6 years we attended, simply because most people in the area are catholic. I'm glad we were educated about different religions and what they stood for, and we discussed a lot of ethical issues as well. But at the same time, the catholic faith and its beliefs was being pushed on us. For instance, when we discussed abortion, we were shown a horrifying video about how it happens. That didn't exactly leave much room for discussion at the time. That would never happen this way here in the US.
In recent years I have become very opinionated about religion and the issues that surround it. While I think it's great for people to have faith in something, I think it should be their own choice and belief, and they should not try to force it on others and try to influcence others through it.
You and I will have to duscuss all this sometime over a few beers :)
thanks for commenting!
I'm also not a fan of organized religion, but I strongly believe that everyone should have a choice and should be allowed to freely and peacefully follow whatever religion they believe in.
I also think the seperation of church and state is a good idea, however, this is not easily enforced, and I'm not sure it's being successfully done anywhere (at least not anywhere I've ever lived). And I wonder if it's ever possible to completely seperate the two. Aside from the way our current administration behaves, religion also factors into who people will vote for in the next election, making it an important point for candidates to stress.
In addition, religious issues are turning into political issues, and vice versa, for example in regards to gay rights or abortion. Not to mention religous wars and killings that are initiated by government in the name of religon.
What I do think works in the US is that religion isn't being pushed on anybody. In that sense, church and state are seperated. The High School I went to in Germany was public and had no religious affliliation. Yet, we had mandatory religion classes for each of the 6 years we attended, simply because most people in the area are catholic. I'm glad we were educated about different religions and what they stood for, and we discussed a lot of ethical issues as well. But at the same time, the catholic faith and its beliefs was being pushed on us. For instance, when we discussed abortion, we were shown a horrifying video about how it happens. That didn't exactly leave much room for discussion at the time. That would never happen this way here in the US.
In recent years I have become very opinionated about religion and the issues that surround it. While I think it's great for people to have faith in something, I think it should be their own choice and belief, and they should not try to force it on others and try to influcence others through it.
You and I will have to duscuss all this sometime over a few beers :)
A few thoughts a I had....
1. In my opinion, any sort of religious fundamentalist is dangerous, whether its Christian or Islamic or whatever. I actually agree with you Dave, about the anti-gay movements with Christian leaders.
2. Seperation of church & state...not sure that's really possible. I think faith & belief is such a core part of a person's being, I am not sure how they would seperate it in a leadership. I think people have a problem with Mitt Romney, not because he is religious, but because he is Mormon. Most Christians don't believe that Mormons are Christians as the claim to be & have problems with the way Mormonishm started.
3. I am not really sure if you are blaming religion for these deaths or people. Because its completely people. As I understand, the Crusades started with a good intention- to go forth & spread Christianity (which is what God wants us to do). However, somewhere it went really wrong & people stopped following God's commandments & started taking things into their own hands. And that is what happened in all of these cases, people stopped following the command that Jesus gave "To love others more than you love yourself."
I am certainly not meaning to sound preachy--but I get frustrated when people are taking the worst of the "christian" sterotype & then make that all the christianity they know or talk about.
I have so much more to say on these subjects, but I will stop now....
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1. In my opinion, any sort of religious fundamentalist is dangerous, whether its Christian or Islamic or whatever. I actually agree with you Dave, about the anti-gay movements with Christian leaders.
2. Seperation of church & state...not sure that's really possible. I think faith & belief is such a core part of a person's being, I am not sure how they would seperate it in a leadership. I think people have a problem with Mitt Romney, not because he is religious, but because he is Mormon. Most Christians don't believe that Mormons are Christians as the claim to be & have problems with the way Mormonishm started.
3. I am not really sure if you are blaming religion for these deaths or people. Because its completely people. As I understand, the Crusades started with a good intention- to go forth & spread Christianity (which is what God wants us to do). However, somewhere it went really wrong & people stopped following God's commandments & started taking things into their own hands. And that is what happened in all of these cases, people stopped following the command that Jesus gave "To love others more than you love yourself."
I am certainly not meaning to sound preachy--but I get frustrated when people are taking the worst of the "christian" sterotype & then make that all the christianity they know or talk about.
I have so much more to say on these subjects, but I will stop now....
# posted by 
: December 13, 2007 at 11:55 AM
: December 13, 2007 at 11:55 AM Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
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